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A PCT Question for the vets from a long but basic cycle.

ippei

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Firstly, I appreciate the community. Asking this post because I've searched the forum + others trying to get clarity but I'm becoming more anxious because of the mixed response. If anyone can share a similar experience, I'd greatly appreciate it.

This is my second cycle with testosterone. Initial one was a 16 week test enanthate cycle where I didn't know how to eat or lift so messed up but recovered OK from a nolvadex pct. I'm 29 years old at 18% BF - can see the outlines of the abs but have the love handles. I weigh 160 - 165lbs depending on water consumption and carb intake and eat at 2500 Calories for maintenance and 3500/4000 Cal for bulking. My training is a split program across 5-6 days depending on the mesocycle. My goal for the program was to put on mass and cut it off towards the tail end of the cycle.

After the first cycle, I realised that it took a while for enanthate to kick in and so I chose sustanon as the testosterone base. I also ordered four weeks supply of Dianabol and 6 weeks supply of anavar for the end of the cycle. Goal of the cycle was 4-5 months.

Visually it ended up looking like this. I added anastrazole after a doctor recommended I use it to reduce estrogen even though I didn't have signs e.g. gyno
WeeksSustanon 250DianabolAnavarAnastrazole
1-4500mg (2 doses of 250mg every 3.5days)
20mg/day
5- 20500mg
(2 doses every 3.5days)
1mg/3.5 days
21-27500mg (2 doses of 250mg every 3.5days)
20mg/day
1mg/3.5 days

Week 1 - 4 ate 2800 Calories on average (diet honestly was clean but poorly managed, ranging between 2000 to 3000 calories). Protein requirements met.
Week 5 - 20 ate 3000-4000 calories (gradually increasing until I lost the outline of the abs, then scaled back. Food was clean e.g. lean chicken
Week 21 to 27 ate at 2500 Calories (with protein requirements met)

Pre-cycle bloods, blood pressure is clear/normal except for elevated CK from weight training. On cycle bloods flagged Low HDL, High CK, Slightly high platelets, High progesterone, low LH/FSH, low SHBG, High Free Test and Test, consistent with actual gear unsurprisingly.

Today I'm a week after ending last dose of the sustanon and have Clomid ready. Plan was to wait 4 weeks and then start at 25mg per day for 8 weeks then recheck with bloods. In the meantime, continuing weight training at heavy weights and eating at maintenance (2500 Cal) or slight surplus on training days (3000 Cal).

Where I'm stuck is checking forums, Will Lleweyn and speaking with a couple of docs and feeling my now shrunken balls. They've reduced in size at least 30%, maybe 50, and my sex drive feels a bit pathetic - but to be honest, it could be from stress, and a recent break up.

I read from Lleweyn that HCG could be used to stimulate the LH production from leydig cells but my main doc was against adding more hormones in the system. I'm siding towards not using HCG because I'm concerned about desensitization. At the same time, I'd like the HPTA to recover as soon as possible. Given my cycle was almost half a year, was keen to hear everyone's thoughts on whether clomid tabs would be enough with a relatively young user, clean diet and regular heavy training? (In hindsight, I should have asked this but maybe I was a bit cocky)
 
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Considering that your cycle was almost half a year and you are experiencing testicle shrinkage and lower sex drive (no wonder, since you stopped using test, and your progesterone is high), I think that some HCG may help and Clomid alone may not be enough. People use Clomid stacked with Nolvadex after just 2-3 months cycles. Also 25 mg/day of Clomid is not enough. And you should not wait 4 weeks to start PCT after the last cycle, but only 2. So, here's what I would do:
these 2 weeks when you're not using testosterone and haven't yet started PCT, you use HCG every 2-3 days in a dosage of 500 IU. It will boost LH and FSH production, which helps HPTA recover sooner. May even use HCG during the first week of PCT if necessary. I generally don't recommend HCG during the PCT as it still suppresses the natural production of testosterone, but due to the way it works, it can help boost it the first weeks. So it is important to avoid HCG the last weeks of PCT (or the entire PCT plan). Then, have a 4-6 weeks PCT plan with Clomid at least 50 mg/day, may even use 100 mg/day for the first 1-2 weeks, and could stack with nolvadex 40mg/day for the first 1-2 weeks, then reduce to 20 mg/day. This will help speed up recovery.
Do continue to eat clean, regular strength train and have a healthy lifestyle. Have bloodwork at the end of PCT plan
 
PS: what was your starting weight? 140-145 lb after 5 months of Sustanon with a bit of Dianabol and Anavar should've added some mass given you had a proper diet and workout plan
 
Sorry starting weight was 145lbs and finishing at 165lbs*

It's better than first cycle where I didn't eat enough and there's no change, but it's not as remarkable as a nandrolone cycle. Now the struggle is to hold as much gains as I can :D
 
Considering that your cycle was almost half a year and you are experiencing testicle shrinkage and lower sex drive (no wonder, since you stopped using test, and your progesterone is high), I think that some HCG may help and Clomid alone may not be enough. People use Clomid stacked with Nolvadex after just 2-3 months cycles. Also 25 mg/day of Clomid is not enough. And you should not wait 4 weeks to start PCT after the last cycle, but only 2. So, here's what I would do:
these 2 weeks when you're not using testosterone and haven't yet started PCT, you use HCG every 2-3 days in a dosage of 500 IU. It will boost LH and FSH production, which helps HPTA recover sooner. May even use HCG during the first week of PCT if necessary. I generally don't recommend HCG during the PCT as it still suppresses the natural production of testosterone, but due to the way it works, it can help boost it the first weeks. So it is important to avoid HCG the last weeks of PCT (or the entire PCT plan). Then, have a 4-6 weeks PCT plan with Clomid at least 50 mg/day, may even use 100 mg/day for the first 1-2 weeks, and could stack with nolvadex 40mg/day for the first 1-2 weeks, then reduce to 20 mg/day. This will help speed up recovery.
Do continue to eat clean, regular strength train and have a healthy lifestyle. Have bloodwork at the end of PCT plan
Good explanation ippei 👍 Go with what SuppsForLife says ☝️
 
Now the struggle is to hold as much gains as I can :D
eat clean and ensure you hit calories with correct macros. train hard and keep a healthy lifestyle. you will hold, no worries. Then you can gain more during the next blast 💪
 
For many years now I’ve been an avid supporter of using hCG at 300 to 500 mg per week all cycle long. That will keep your shrinkage to a minimum and make PCT all that much easier.
 
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