Lipid Question

[VakarianSK]

So I have two sets of lipids. Both were taken while running the following plus supplements like tudca, citrus bergamont, pepzin gi, multis, niacin etc... Is there any reason to worry about a low HDL considering that my ldl is also so low? Would introducing a low dose of ezetimibe like 5-10mg daily be something to look into?

weekly:
300 primo e
300 test e

daily:
nebivolol 5mg
telmisartan 40mg
hydrochlorothiazide 12.5mg
cialis 5mg
10IU hgh
20IU lantus
1g carnatine
200mg glutathione
500mcg b12

Diet is mostly turkey breast or chicken breast, white rice, sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats for the first meal, whey/casein protein powder, and 200-300g of vegetables in the last meal. Very low fat with the only fats coming from trace fats in the meat and 10g fish oil plus 15g macadamia nut oil.

I am very active averaging 30-40k steps a day plus two training sessions, one in the morning and a shorter one in the afternoon.

 

[Nike]

One thing you can include to help your HDL cholesterol is Caradarie. Last year I ran 5 mg per day and my HDL increased dramatically. That plus niacin of course. But yeah, if your HDL is too low you run the risk of a heart attack. Mine got as low ans eight back in the day but now it’s up to 58.

I don’t think 300 mg each of Primo and test would do that to you though. Did you run anything stronger recently?

 

[VakarianSK]

One thing you can include to help your HDL cholesterol is Caradarie. Last year I ran 5 mg per day and my HDL increased dramatically. That plus niacin of course. But yeah, if your HDL is too low you run the risk of a heart attack. Mine got as low ans eight back in the day but now it’s up to 58.

I don’t think 300 mg each of Primo and test would do that to you though. Did you run anything stronger recently?

No my hdl has always been on the low end. Even just trt at 200-250mg a week I dont think it ever went higher than the low 30s.

 

[Nike]

No my hdl has always been on the low end. Even just trt at 200-250mg a week I dont think it ever went higher than the low 30s.

Try the cardarine. Even at just 5 mg a day I still noticed a difference in my cardio even when I ran Tren last summer. Yeah, my HDL improved even though I ran Tren and whinstrol last summer… (and test, mast).

 

[VakarianSK]

Try the cardarine. Even at just 5 mg a day I still noticed a difference in my cardio even when I ran Tren last summer. Yeah, my HDL improved even though I ran Tren and whinstrol last summer… (and test, mast).

How much did it imporve? And the only thing about Cardarine is all the cancer related stuff surrouding it and thats the last thing I want to do especially while running higher doses of hgh.

 

[Tyler Durden]

So I have two sets of lipids. Both were taken while running the following plus supplements like tudca, citrus bergamont, pepzin gi, multis, niacin etc... Is there any reason to worry about a low HDL considering that my ldl is also so low? Would introducing a low dose of ezetimibe like 5-10mg daily be something to look into?

Diet is mostly turkey breast or chicken breast, white rice, sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats for the first meal, whey/casein protein powder, and 200-300g of vegetables in the last meal. Very low fat with the only fats coming from trace fats in the meat and 10g fish oil plus 15g macadamia nut oil.

Brother, we all know Primo will kill your HDL like no other AAS. I would either roll with it or adjust your Test E and Primo E doses and then in 3-4 wks get bloods again and see what your test results say. By the way, I'm very impressed with the sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats; excellent addition to your diet. Cheers, Tyler

 

[VakarianSK]

Brother, we all know Primo will kill your HDL like no other AAS. I would either roll with it or adjust your Test E and Primo E doses and then in 3-4 wks get bloods again and see what your test results say. By the way, I'm very impressed with the sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats; excellent addition to your diet. Cheers, Tyler

Thanks, I am a huge proponent of optimizing digestion. Prebiotic with the psyllium and probiotic with the sauerkraut. Yeah I honestly could care less about the hdl number as long as I knew for certain it really didn't matter. For example one comment on PM said it is likely not something to worry about since my hdl/ldl ratio is really good.

Also since my ldl is so crushed it would seem plaque build up cannot occur and any current plaque that may be there already is regressing.

In other words, a drop in LDL from 70 mg/dL down to 31 mg/dL was associated with 20% fewer CVD events such as heart attack or stroke. The benefit was consistent regardless of the medications used to lower cholesterol.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Thanks, I am a huge proponent of optimizing digestion. Prebiotic with the psyllium and probiotic with the sauerkraut. Yeah I honestly could care less about the hdl number as long as I knew for certain it really didn't matter. For example one comment on PM said it is likely not something to worry about since my hdl/ldl ratio is really good.

Also since my ldl is so crushed it would seem plaque build up cannot occur and any current plaque that may be there already is regressing.

In other words, a drop in LDL from 70 mg/dL down to 31 mg/dL was associated with 20% fewer CVD events such as heart attack or stroke. The benefit was consistent regardless of the medications used to lower cholesterol.

Yeah, I agree, I would be more concerned about your LDL, but that's crushed anyways. Either way I assume it's short term while you're using Primo. Unless Primo is a regular staple and you're using it year-round. Then you may need to take steps to address the HDL situation.

 

[VakarianSK]

Yeah, I agree, I would be more concerned about your LDL, but that's crushed anyways. Either way I assume it's short term while you're using Primo. Unless Primo is a regular staple and you're using it year-round. Then you may need to take steps to address the HDL situation.

Do you personally see the hdl number as being anything important given the other test results if say I stayed with these numbers year round? And if so why? I am genuinley curious on your input and reasoning as well as others who chime in. I am on a mission to learn as much as I can so that I can help others or clients who come to me in the future with similar questions or results.

 

[Nike]

How much did it imporve? And the only thing about Cardarine is all the cancer related stuff surrouding it and thats the last thing I want to do especially while running higher doses of hgh.

Well, HDL went from 8 to 58 in just under a year.
Regarding the cancer issue, I looked at the studies. Basically they gave the mice so much cardarine it would equate to a human taking multiple grams of it every day. At 5mg ed I have zero concerns.

 

[VakarianSK]

Well, HDL went from 8 to 58 in just under a year.
Regarding the cancer issue, I looked at the studies. Basically they gave the mice so much cardarine it would equate to a human taking multiple grams of it every day. At 5mg ed I have zero concerns.

Did you cycle change at all during that year that may have also increased hdl?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Well, HDL went from 8 to 58 in just under a year.
Regarding the cancer issue, I looked at the studies. Basically they gave the mice so much cardarine it would equate to a human taking multiple grams of it every day. At 5mg ed I have zero concerns.

I'll have to look more into cardarine. I take Molecular Nutrition's Lipid Stabil and the enzymes: nattokinase, serrapeptase, and lumbrokinase. All are known to reduce LDL and increase HDL.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Do you personally see the hdl number as being anything important given the other test results if say I stayed with these numbers year round? And if so why? I am genuinley curious on your input and reasoning as well as others who chime in. I am on a mission to learn as much as I can so that I can help others or clients who come to me in the future with similar questions or results.

Yes, I would say it's important, reason why we do our best to mitigate these health markers from being off ideal numbers. Me personally, I wouldn't run Primo for long periods, say 6 months or longer, especially not year-round because of how hard it hits lipids. I've been running Test and Mast almost year-round, but the other day I just busted out a vial of Primo to interchange with the Mast. I'll get bloods done before and during the Primo run and see what it looks like. I'm curious what the Primo will do to my E2 compared to Mast, plus see how it will affect my HDL as well. I don't know how long I will run the Primo yet, I want to see the overall effects, good and bad, from it and then decide. Every year I get bloods done the first of the year regardless of what I'm doing anyways.

 

[VakarianSK]

Yes, I would say it's important, reason why we do our best to mitigate these health markers from being off ideal numbers. Me personally, I wouldn't run Primo for long periods, say 6 months or longer, especially not year-round because of how hard it hits lipids. I've been running Test and Mast almost year-round, but the other day I just busted out a vial of Primo to interchange with the Mast. I'll get bloods done before and during the Primo run and see what it looks like. I'm curious what the Primo will do to my E2 compared to Mast, plus see how it will affect my HDL as well. I don't know how long I will run the Primo yet, I want to see the overall effects, good and bad, from it and then decide. Every year I get bloods done the first of the year regardless of what I'm doing anyways.

If you remember please let me know what your lipids look like on the same does of mast compared to the same dose of primo. I would be very interested in those results . Because I have been thinking about seeing what would happen if I did a 1:1 replacement of mast to primo and kept everything else the same. But in the end I do not think I am concerned about my lipids after doing some more research (see below post).

 

[VakarianSK]

After doing a lot of research on this the conclusion I came to is the following.

Ldl is bad cholesterol that can build up in your body. This build up is known as plaque which is what leads to health problems like heart disease and stroke. With this is mind the only reason ldl is bad is because it gets converted to plaque. If it did not have the potential to turn into plaque, then ldl would not matter.

Hdl is good cholesterol but all it does is take the ldl and send it to the liver. The liver then flushes the ldl from you body. So hdl is basically a transporter and the liver is what does the job of removing the ldl.

Recent publications suggest that plaque stabilization occurs when LDL-C is below 70 mg/dL, but plaque regression will not occur until LDL is below 50 mg/dL. Regression means a return to a former or less developed state. So, if ldl is below 50 it would make sense that it cannot turn into plaque. And if it cannot turn into plaque then there is no problem with cholesterol levels meaning that hdl in theory does not matter.

https://www.cdc.gov/cholesterol/ldl_hdl.htm

https://www.consultant360.com/artic... will not occur until LDL is below 50 mg/dL.7

TLDR: From my understanding hdl does not matter if ldl is below 50.

 

[Northface384]

Were these lipids on cruise or test/primo blast? Have you always had low HDL? Running an AI? What is the dose of Citrus Bergamont and niacin (flush or no flush). Your diet seems quite good. I’m surprised your HDL is so low. Your ratio looks great. From everything I have understood recently, the ratio is one of the most important markers as well as VLDL and inflammatory markers. Me personally, would be concerned about the ratio changing out of range once starting blast. I just recently got my ratio under 4 and my HDL above 54 for the first time and maybe 10 years.

 

[VakarianSK]

Were these lipids on cruise or test/primo blast? Have you always had low HDL? Running an AI? What is the dose of Citrus Bergamont and niacin (flush or no flush). Your diet seems quite good. I’m surprised your HDL is so low. Your ratio looks great. From everything I have understood recently, the ratio is one of the most important markers as well as VLDL and inflammatory markers. Me personally, would be concerned about the ratio changing out of range once starting blast. I just recently got my ratio under 4 and my HDL above 54 for the first time and maybe 10 years.

Genetically my hdl has always been low even when on 200-250mg trt through my clinic (although at the time I was also using an AI) but I do not think I have ever had an hdl in the 40s my whole life.

These lipids were on 300 test/300 primo which I have been titrating up since last year.

Citrus Berg is at 1200mg
Niacin Flush is at 1000mg

Im taking out the citrus bergamont and replacing it with Red Yeast Rice and will get lipids done in a few weeks just out of curiosity because citrus berg I do not think does much for my hdl. I will likely post my findings in my member's log.

After doing a lot of research on this the conclusion I came to is the following.

Ldl is bad cholesterol that can build up in your body. This build up is known as plaque which is what leads to health problems like heart disease and stroke. With this is mind the only reason ldl is bad is because it gets converted to plaque. If it did not have the potential to turn into plaque, then ldl would not matter.

Hdl is good cholesterol but all it does is take the ldl and send it to the liver. The liver then flushes the ldl from you body. So hdl is basically a transporter and the liver is what does the job of removing the ldl.

Recent publications suggest that plaque stabilization occurs when LDL-C is below 70 mg/dL, but plaque regression will not occur until LDL is below 50 mg/dL. Regression means a return to a former or less developed state. So, if ldl is below 50 it would make sense that it cannot turn into plaque. And if it cannot turn into plaque then there is no problem with cholesterol levels meaning that hdl in theory does not matter.

https://www.cdc.gov/cholesterol/ldl_hdl.htm

https://www.consultant360.com/articles/low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol-how-low-should-you-go-and-what-about-safety#:~:text=Recent publications suggest that plaque stabilization occurs when LDL-C is below 70 mg/dL, but plaque regression will not occur until LDL is below 50 mg/dL.7

TLDR: From my understanding hdl does not matter if ldl is below 50.

But in the end I am not concerned according to my research posted above.

What did you do to get your hdl above 50?

 

[Northface384]

Genetically my hdl has always been low even when on 200-250mg trt through my clinic (although at the time I was also using an AI) but I do not think I have ever had an hdl in the 40s my whole life.

These lipids were on 300 test/300 primo which I have been titrating up since last year.

Citrus Berg is at 1200mg
Niacin Flush is at 1000mg

Im taking out the citrus bergamont and replacing it with Red Yeast Rice and will get lipids done in a few weeks just out of curiosity because citrus berg I do not think does much for my hdl. I will likely post my findings in my member's log.



But in the end I am not concerned according to my research posted above.

What did you do to get your hdl above 50?

To be honest, I did not do anything specific. For the past 6+ years. I’ve always used a lot of heart supplements, focused on blood pressure and lipids and always had HDL below 38 as low as single digits. Those numbers were highly contributed to oral steroids, masteron, and/or AI use. I have not used any oral steroids in many years and have not used any Masteron or Primo in about six months.

I'm currently running
100mg test E e3d (roughly 250mg a week)
.5 adex e3d
3iu gh 5 days a weeks (new since previous bloods)
lisinopril 10mg (new since previous bloods)

Natural supps
D3/k2
Nattokanase
Ubiquinol 200mg (new since previous blood)
Mervia Turmeric 500mg
Fish oil 3g high EPA/DHA
Oxyjuna (Arjuna) 400mg (new since previous bloods)
Red Yeast Rice 1800mg
NAC 600mg
Magnesium Glycinate 800mg

I’ve recently started eating more blueberries daily and trying to consume more all around fruits and veggies (still not that great at it). Most protein sources come from whole eggs, 85/15 organic beef, 85/15 ground turkey, with occasional steak and chicken breast. Carbohydrates mainly jasmine rice, red potatoes, oats, or bagels (not whole grain). so to be honest, I’m not really sure anything specific that led to the increase in HDL. Most of my bloodwork was done while using Aromasin but the past two years I have been using Adex instead. Which most people say aromasin doesn’t affect lipids as bad as Adex, but I may be an exception to that rule. And for added info, my family does have a huge history of cardiovascular disease.

 

[VakarianSK]

To be honest, I did not do anything specific. For the past 6+ years. I’ve always used a lot of heart supplements, focused on blood pressure and lipids and always had HDL below 38 as low as single digits. Those numbers were highly contributed to oral steroids, masteron, and/or AI use. I have not used any oral steroids in many years and have not used any Masteron or Primo in about six months.

I'm currently running
100mg test E e3d (roughly 250mg a week)
.5 adex e3d
3iu gh 5 days a weeks (only bc I get lazy)
lisinopril 10mg (new since previous bloods)

Natural supps
D3/k2
Nattokanase
Ubiquinol 200mg (new since previous blood)
Mervia Turmeric 500mg
Fish oil 3g high EPA/DHA
Oxyjuna (Arjuna) 400mg (new since previous bloods)
Red Yeast Rice 1800mg
NAC 600mg
Magnesium Glycinate 800mg

I’ve recently started eating more blueberries daily and trying to consume more all around fruits and veggies (still not that great at it). Most protein sources come from whole eggs, 85/15 organic beef, 85/15 ground turkey, with occasional steak and chicken breast. Carbohydrates mainly jasmine rice, red potatoes, oats, or bagels (not whole grain). so to be honest, I’m not really sure anything specific that led to the increase in HDL. Most of my bloodwork was done while using Aromasin but the past two years I have been using Adex instead. Which most people say aromasin doesn’t affect lipids as bad as Adex, but I may be an exception to that rule. And for added info, my family does have a huge history of cardiovascular disease.

Interesting, what are you other lipid markers along with this hdl? For example the ones show in the initial post.

 

[Tyler Durden]

If you remember please let me know what your lipids look like on the same does of mast compared to the same dose of primo. I would be very interested in those results . Because I have been thinking about seeing what would happen if I did a 1:1 replacement of mast to primo and kept everything else the same. But in the end I do not think I am concerned about my lipids after doing some more research (see below post).

Absolutely brother, I don't know when I'll do the transition yet, but when I do, I will post up what I find. I'm curious what I'm going to think of the Primo. It sounds like Primo can crush E2 more than Mast mitigates it. I never run my Test and Mast 1:1, it's usually 3:2 or 3:1 Test to Mast. Because at 1:1 Mast will bring my E2 lower than I want. When I start the Primo it will be 3:1 Test to Primo as a starting point.