Good day, This is my first cycle. Thank you
First off, I'm impressed, a number of 1536 ng/dL from 120mg per week is damn good. That screams hyper responder. Let me guess, you got your blood draw right after or the day of one of your injections. I'm assuming 30mg split S and Wed is a typo, if you're pinning 120mg twice a week that would make each dose 60mg of Test. Nobody is going to be able to give you a straightforward answer. This is a game of experimentation to find out what works best for you personally. Guidance is all that any of us can provide, but I feel that's what you're looking for anyways. We'll do our best here.
For your goals, we're looking at a minimum of TRT+, like you mention, for your goal of a recomp we're venturing potentially more into say a cycle. I'm not going to keep repeating the same things that Zion posted, but there are overlaps and what he stated is on point. If you decide to add in Primo or Mast to modulate your E2 levels here's how you do it in a logical manor, not just Bro science. I like to look at it as dosing according to ratios to find the ideal combo of compounds. In mg's I personally prefer a 2:1 ratio of Test to Primo or Mast, sometimes a 3:1 depending on my goals and the compounds being added on top of the Test base. I get the impression you have a basic understanding of reading your blood panels, I basic important skill to know. We all know both Primo and Mast can influence our E2 levels changing the ratio of estradiol to testosterone in the body. Keeping a good balance is key with how these compounds influence everyone's biology, which can be a little different from one person to the next, one reason for knowing how to read your own blood panel to take care of yourself personally instead of Bro science being thrown at you.
Keep in mind, keeping the ratio of Test to E2 can be as important to keeping your E2 in an 'ideal' range. A good ratio of Test to E2 while on TRT is 20:1. The ideal range of E2 on your blood panel is 25-60 pg/mL. So, with your last bloodwork showing your Test at 1536ng/dL, you E2 should be in a range +/- of 76.8pg/mL to be balanced with your TTL Test blood serum levels. With that being said, I personally think your 1536 Test number is an artificially inflated number, but I could be wrong. Another blood draw right between injection dates will give you a better idea of where your blood serum levels will be with the Test floating through your body. I have a feeling in reality your blood serum level isn't normally as high as 1536ng/dL on 120mg of Test per week. Re-test but order custom bloodwork to save $$$. Order just a hormonal panel to see where your Test and E2 are at and any other hormones you're interested in. An example is if your Test comes back between 1100 - 1200ng/dL then hopefully your E2 is between 55 - 60pg/mL. These numbers aren't absolutes, only references. Unless you just want that shredded ripped look, you want to have your E2 in the higher acceptable range for muscle building purposes. Estrogen is a key component for muscle building; you can't build muscle without it and the more the better while keeping side effects at bay. There are ripped mass monsters walking around with estradiol levels well above 100pg/mL. It's all in how your body handles these exogenous hormones and the only way to find out is through experimentation with yourself.
I personally can run my Test up to 600-700mg/wk without having to modulate my E2 levels by using a DHT or AI. A lot of guys can't do this without getting some level of unwanted side effects. The guys in the know will run Test up as high as they can go and once sides start kicking in, they'll level off their Test dose. After that they'll add in a DHT or AI or both so that they can push the ceiling even higher. The first red flag for me that my E2 is getting on the high side (for me personally) is swelling around the ankles, the start of excessive water retention. At this point I either back of the doses or up the DHT or change the ratio of Test to a DHT (Mast or Primo). Personally, I haven't used an AI in over 15 years, I just modulate estradiol with DHT's or dosing amount, ie: I'll just cruise on 300mg/wk of Test, or if I go higher, I'll throw 100mg/wk Mast or Primo in on top of the Test. I used to use Proviron but once I started experimenting with Mast, I just replaced the Provi with Mast and never looked back.
Take what I say, or anyone else with a grain of salt. Hell, no do you have to follow what I say, what I do may not be best for you. Use what I say as a starting point, a template or reference point. You have to figure out what works best for yourself, not what works best for someone else. Only way to do this is through experimentation. Knowing when side effects start to kick in; paying attention so you catch them early is key. But more importantly is getting regular blood draws to read your blood panels and cross reference your blood markers on the blood panels. You never go off just one set of blood panels; you string a few along. Having 3 to 6 blood panels spaced out evenly, say over 2 to 3 months apart is a good starting point. Then you can plot a sign chart showing what direction, if any, your blood markers are going. This is how you'll know to adjust doses and ratio of dosing between compounds to achieve your personal goals, ie: modulate your E2 or keep side effects suppressed while optimizing your total dosing amount.
Yes, it's alright to run your Test blood serum levels above 1500ng/dL. It's very common for people to have their blood serum levels above 1500 while on cycle, it's less common not to have them elevated above 1500 when you're running ttl mg's above TRT and TRT+ doses. It's just a reference number, not an absolute or necessity to have this number at any given point. Most guys like to max it out while at the same time keeping side effects at bay. Next time you order 'blood work' or a grouping or block of blood panels, sure you order the in-depth hormonal panel:
-- Total Testosterone - LC/MS-MS
-- Sensitive Estradiol (E2) - LC/MS-MS
-- Free Testosterone (equilibrium dialysis or calculated)
-- SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)
To save money order just a Complete Hormonal panel with the above markers. It's alright if a couple of other markers are thrown in like Albumin, DHT, DHEA-S, etc.
This is only an example, not necessarily a recommendation with doses. Everyone responds differently from exogenous hormones, meaning your blood serum levels won't be the same as the next person. Just use the below formula to determine how to modulate your E2 to optimize your cycles or run of TRT, TRT+ regimen. Once you found your sweet spot of Test, say 250mg/wk, and this brings your serum levels in at around 2000ng/dL. This is just a reference, not an absolute number, but your E2 serum levels hopefully will be in at around 100pg/mL. Then you can add in Mast or Primo to modulate your E2 to bump up your total hormones and bring your E2 down into a comfortable range of say 30-60pg/mL. for your goals of a recomp. As a reference your E2 should come in at around 100pg/mL. Say you do a 2:1, Test to Mast, that's 250mg/wk of Test to 125mg/wk of Mast. Let's make this really easy with dosing your Mast by splitting the mL in half, a full mL of Mast is 200mg/mL. So now we have your weekly doses at 250mg of Test and 100mg of Mast for a total of 350mg of gear for the week. Let's say 100mg/wk of Mast brings your E2 down to around 60pg/mL from 100pg/mL on your bloodwork, I'd say you're looking pretty good with having an effective dose of Test while at the same time modulating your E2 into a good range which will hopefully keep the side effects at bay.
The higher percentage of androgens in your system from adding in the Mast or Primo will help with the fat burning while hopefully at the same time adding some extra muscle tissue to your frame. The key player to burning the body fat off while you're working on adding what muscle tissue you can is the Retatrutide. What's going on here and you know this, is some biohacking. The recomp thing is just a fantasy for most guys.
Primo acts like a SARM and Mast acts like a SERM. Reason why Primo can have a bigger impact on lowering your E2 levels. I'm not going into the detailed difference how the two work in the body but monitoring your E2 levels and comparing them to your Test levels is important.
Note: edits will be coming, like now, through all this I've been referencing the Enanthate ester for Test, Mast and Primo. I have a busy weekend and just wanted to post this up. In other words, this post is not finished nor complete. But I will edit and complete at some point. Feel free to ask questions in the meantime. Cheers, Tyler
