hgh and cutting question

[dasdudehghme]

Clenbuterol usage can lead to heightened beta-2 adrenergic receptor sensitivity, resulting in diminished effects after a few weeks. Ketotifen's role is crucial in maintaining prolonged receptor sensitivity. By inhibiting the downregulation of these receptors, ketotifen ensures that clenbuterol continues to exert its bronchodilator and thermogenic effects.

Moreover, clenbuterol may induce sleep disturbances, jitteriness, and increased heart rate. Ketotifen, with its antihistamine properties, can alleviate these side effects. It promotes better sleep quality and reduces the anxiety or restlessness often associated with clenbuterol use.

Nice didn't even occur to me those may be helpful to counteract those sides.

 

[dasdudehghme]

I've used Benadryl in the past to keep receptors upregulated when using Clen. Here is a post from another board that compares Ketotifen to Benadryl:

I found this explanation on another board which appears to agree with a study I found on PubMed.
The study discusses the reduced degradation of methylated phospholipids which is associated with desensitization of the beta adrenergic receptors after prolonged stimulation. Sheez. Basically its preserving the membranes around beta receptors.
Anyways this is based around clen but should be the same general premise with albuterol or ephedra. So here u go:

"Due to the fact that clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist/antagonist the downregulation of the cardiac, pulmonary and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors is an issue that users must combat when using this compound (3). A proven method to help alleviate this effect and ensure that the clenbuterol remains effective throughout its use is via the administration of ketotifen (7). Ketotifen is a prescription anti-histimines that acts to reduce beta-2 receptor activity. By reducing this activity, the receptor function is restored to nearly its original capability and the potency of the clenbuterol remains in effect. Doses of two to ten milligrams of ketotifen have been used by users of clenbuterol, but most would be well served to start at lower doses. It is unlikely that many will need doses higher then 5 milligrams per day. Taking ketotifen for seven days every two to three weeks should be enough to maintain well functioning beta-2 receptors and ensure that the clenbuterol maintains its effectiveness.

An alternative to ketotifen may be diphenhydramine, commonly referred to as Benedryl. Benadryl is a cationic ampiphylic drug, with this fact being significant because cationic ampiphylic drugs have the ability to inhibit phospholipase A2 and therefore upgrade beta-2 receptors (8). The inhibition of the enzyme phospholipase A2 is key due to it being responsible for methylated phospholipids. It is thought that by reducing and/or ending this action this allows the phospholipid membrane to remain relatively intact and the beta-adrenoreceptors will be able to remain functioning at their full capacity, or near to it, for much longer. For most, an effective dose would be 50-100mgs per day for seven days every three weeks while running clenbuterol. Users would be well served to take this dosage just prior to going to sleep as it will likely cause drowsiness.

Having said this, there is much more anecdotal feedback in regards to the effectiveness of ketotifen in relation to clenbuterol then there is Benedryl simply because ketotifen has been used much longer by strength athletes and bodybuilders for this purpose. As well, there is seemingly more direct research that indicates that ketotifen is effective while only a few studies suggest the same of Benedryl.. That is not to say that Benedryl is ineffective, just that there is less “real world” feedback as to its use with clenbuterol.

This prevention of the downregulation of the beta-2 receptors is important since it appears that clenbuterol gains effectiveness and produces its best results if it is run for six weeks or longer. This is true of fat loss and muscle mass gain it appears. For this reason most users will want to run clenbuterol for at least six weeks and ensure that they use some protection against receptor downregulation so that the clenbuterol remains effective throughout. "

Any one have a good domestic source lol?
The best article I've read was on think steroids and it wasn't quite that in depth but close.

Now im certain I need Ketotifen.

For sleep I was looking at Delta sleep inducing peptides already didn't think.about the utility of ketotifen for sides aswell

 

[johnjuanb1]

HGH year round is the way to go. It keeps the fat off while bulking and speeds up healing and fat loss while cutting.

 

[dasdudehghme]

I just ordered more hgh lol

 

[dasdudehghme]

well fellas went from 40mg to 60mg and probably 80mg of clen tomorrow either it's not that strong but it is dragon pharma. Maybe the sides I was worried about aren't shit compared to the caffeine I used to abuse lol

 

[dasdudehghme]

ketotifen is on its way have been using 50mg benadryl b4 bed every night

 

[dasdudehghme]

clen & hgh is no joke of a fat burner coupled with diet & exercise

 

[Tyler Durden]

well fellas went from 40mg to 60mg and probably 80mg of clen tomorrow either it's not that strong but it is dragon pharma. Maybe the sides I was worried about aren't shit compared to the caffeine I used to abuse lol

You could always test your Clen to make sure it's legit, but it won't give you potency, it will only tell you if Clen is present or not:

Clenbuterol Test Kit

Clenbuterol is a popular pharmaceutical in the fitness/bodybuilding community, widely used for its thermogenic and potential muscle-enhancing properties. Like virtually all drugs of this type, however, it may be subject to counterfeiting, especially when it is obtained outside of secured...

roidtest.com

 

[Tyler Durden]

well fellas went from 40mg to 60mg and probably 80mg of clen tomorrow either it's not that strong but it is dragon pharma. Maybe the sides I was worried about aren't shit compared to the caffeine I used to abuse lol

I personally think Clen has changed over the years. Old school Clen used to come on like a freight train, todays Clen I barely notice compared to Clen back in the day.

 

[Tyler Durden]

clen & hgh is no joke of a fat burner coupled with diet & exercise

Glad to hear you're noticing something from it. Remember, if you're going to run it for a period of time, say beyond 3 weeks, refresh your receptors. I'm not saying to do this, but the most fat I dropped in a short period of time was with HGH, Clen, T3 and Tren, the fat just melted away.

 

[dasdudehghme]

Glad to hear you're noticing something from it. Remember, if you're going to run it for a period of time, say beyond 3 weeks, refresh your receptors. I'm not saying to do this, but the most fat I dropped in a short period of time was with HGH, Clen, T3 and Tren, the fat just melted away.

I have tren but I think I need more cycles under my belt first ive only done one real cycle yet. I really wanna run the tren with my hgh tho!!! I introduced my second compound so far being primo and just at a trt level still. VERY HAPPY THO immediately lost water i didnt realize i was retaining still. Today I took 100mg of clen I mean I notice it in shedding fat between that and the hgh but it's only like 4 hours I really notice anything major and it just kinda tapers off. My heart rate stays elevated tho. I was planning 2 to 3 weeks on then alteast a couple off but if I have to keep upping my dose I might put it to the side and switch to the t3 or t4 when it comes. Ketotifen will be here the same time.

I have cut mix which it test, mast , tren and a vial of tren itself 2.

 

[dasdudehghme]

Glad to hear you're noticing something from it. Remember, if you're going to run it for a period of time, say beyond 3 weeks, refresh your receptors. I'm not saying to do this, but the most fat I dropped in a short period of time was with HGH, Clen, T3 and Tren, the fat just melted away.

I have worked up to 5iu of hgh b4 I started to notice any sides and just numb tingly feet randomly which can be my back issues already but my wrist definitely feel tight today. I'm reading so much conflicting about dosage timing when it comes to muscle building.

When I switch to muscle building goals what's the ideal times to take the hgh?

 

[Tyler Durden]

I have tren but I think I need more cycles under my belt first ive only done one real cycle yet. I really wanna run the tren with my hgh tho!!! I introduced my second compound so far being primo and just at a trt level still. VERY HAPPY THO immediately lost water i didnt realize i was retaining still. Today I took 100mg of clen I mean I notice it in shedding fat between that and the hgh but it's only like 4 hours I really notice anything major and it just kinda tapers off. My heart rate stays elevated tho. I was planning 2 to 3 weeks on then alteast a couple off but if I have to keep upping my dose I might put it to the side and switch to the t3 or t4 when it comes. Ketotifen will be here the same time.

I have cut mix which it test, mast , tren and a vial of tren itself 2.

No rush with the Tren, in fact I would throw it in last and only if you really need to. Tren is a whole other beast to have to contend with. I would add each compound in steps and just add one compound at a time and see how your body responds. Run the HGH and Clen for a little bit and see how that works out for you, let the clen kick in and do its job. How long have you been running the Clen so far? 100mg/day is kind of a lot, especially if you're just starting out with its use. The typical ceiling for Clen is 100mg, no more than 150mg for the average person. Later, or down the road you can add in T3 and see how your body responds to it. I have to remember you only have one cycle under your belt. Definitely save the Tren for down the road, way down the road. Tren is a very special compound, you have to be humble with Tren and give it its due respect. I'm assuming you have Tren Ace on hand. I would save the Tren and get a few cycles under your belt before considering using it. When you think you're ready for the Tren start with a very small dose and every week titrate up in small incremental doses to see how your body responds to it. Do an experimental run first, meaning don't plan out this elaborate cycle around your first time using Tren, once you get into it, you may want or need to abort the use of the Tren. This happens more often than not with people trying out Tren for the first time.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I'm reading so much conflicting about dosage timing when it comes to muscle building.

When I switch to muscle building goals what's the ideal times to take the hgh?

I wouldn't get to wrapped up with the timing OCD a lot of people seem to have. General consensus is just make sure you're getting it in every day. You're in a fat burning phase, 2iu upon waking before fasted cardio in the morning. Then 2iu an hour before training and then another 2iu before bed. This is ideal for fat burning and will help with some muscle building as well. Don't forget, everyone is a little different and all these compounds will affect everyone a little differently than the next person. You need to do some experimenting to see what works best for yourself, just get your daily doses in every day and you'll be fine. What works best for muscle building it what works best for you and your schedule. Going off 6iu/day again, you could do 3iu an hour before training and then 3iu right after training before your first post workout meal. You could do 2iu preWO, 2iu PostWO, and 2iu before bed. If you train in the evening you could do 2iu PreWO and 4iu PostWO with meal before bed. I personally prefer 2iu upon waking before fasted cardio, then 2-3iu PreWO and 2-3iu PostWO. For whatever reason, for me, growth before bed doesn't help my sleep, I find it harder to fall asleep and my sleep isn't as good. But for others, growth before bed helps them sleep like a baby. Educate yourself, don't get too overly wrapped up with timing, and experiment to find out what works best for you. Some mainstream guys throwing out current day ideology with dosing protocols: Vigorous Steve; Kurt Havens; Dr. Todd Lee; Chase Irons; Roman Fritz; Paul Barnett; Blood, Sweat and Gear Podcast; Drugs and Stuff podcast with Dave Crossland (for the longest time my favorite); and there are others, but the people listed here, for the most part are all on the same page, except for Dave Crossland, he's not much of an HGH fan from personal experience, but he's one of the most educated and well respected authorities in the community and still will discuss sensible protocols when it comes to HGH use. One person I haven't mentioned on the forum yet is Dr. Scott Stevenson, now he's on a whole other level than just about everyone else, he's the equivalent of Einstein, but for bodybuilding. You almost need a science degree just to follow along with one of his interviews.

 

[dasdudehghme]

No rush with the Tren, in fact I would throw it in last and only if you really need to. Tren is a whole other beast to have to contend with. I would add each compound in steps and just add one compound at a time and see how your body responds. Run the HGH and Clen for a little bit and see how that works out for you, let the clen kick in and do its job. How long have you been running the Clen so far? 100mg/day is kind of a lot, especially if you're just starting out with its use. The typical ceiling for Clen is 100mg, no more than 150mg for the average person. Later, or down the road you can add in T3 and see how your body responds to it. I have to remember you only have one cycle under your belt. Definitely save the Tren for down the road, way down the road. Tren is a very special compound, you have to be humble with Tren and give it its due respect. I'm assuming you have Tren Ace on hand. I would save the Tren and get a few cycles under your belt before considering using it. When you think you're ready for the Tren start with a very small dose and every week titrate up in small incremental doses to see how your body responds to it. Do an experimental run first, meaning don't plan out this elaborate cycle around your first time using Tren, once you get into it, you may want or need to abort the use of the Tren. This happens more often than not with people trying out Tren for the first time.

I have the short and long Ester trens when I do get there I plan on sticking to short Ester until I know how I can handle it. I am maybe 1.5 week into clen. I'm wondering if it's under dosed or something. I have been taking it in the AM b4 I do fasted cardio.

Am I maybe not absorbing it all because of the empty stomach? I'm going to try 80 again with caffeine and see if it improves its effectiveness.

Today I took 80 and felt pretty much nothing then just over an hr later took another 20mg and could feel it again within 20 minutes. I went from 40mg felt little to nothing then next day 60 mg for 3 days then felt nothing 80mg for 1 day then the 2nd day the 80 felt like nothing at all until I took another 20 an hr later.
I cut out my morning caffeine when I started clen im wondering if that's playing a role in it. The first 2 days at 40mg of clen my legs were shaky with my hands.

 

[dasdudehghme]

so another conflicting thing I keep.hearing about hgh is don't use it b4 eating and then others say absolutely use it with high protein and light carbs no fats. That our insulin will reduce it effectiveness. Then so many others I respect talking about timing it out with a meal and exogenous insulin. That's the only thing that I really don't comprehend yet fully is how hgh and insulin interplay. Some of the people were explaining hgh pre high protein meal like others explain using insulin. Shit made me so fucking confused.

from all the sources I respect the common ones they all say are pre workout, fasted AM and a couple hours after food b4 bed. Then others I respect saying timing isn't that important outside fat loss just hit your daily

when I switch to a growing phase I will try pre and post workout which is a few hours b4 bed normally.

Hgh helped my sleep dramatically I went from severe sleep apnea to much less. Like I'm sleeping 2 to 4 hours b4 waking now and can fall back asleep quick then i wake up feeling human again. I have another sleep study in hospital few days from now.

 

[dasdudehghme]

Sorry man I'm absolutely OCD about educating myself on all this stuff to an unnecessary degree according to most. I ask questions I think I know the answers to just to get others opinions sometimes so If I ask you something that seems dumb or like I should already know it I'm probably just trying to gain confidence in what I think the answer is. Sometimes tho it might just be stupid

 

[Tyler Durden]

I have the short and long Ester trens when I do get there I plan on sticking to short Ester until I know how I can handle it. I am maybe 1.5 week into clen. I'm wondering if it's under dosed or something. I have been taking it in the AM b4 I do fasted cardio.

Am I maybe not absorbing it all because of the empty stomach? I'm going to try 80 again with caffeine and see if it improves its effectiveness.

Today I took 80 and felt pretty much nothing then just over an hr later took another 20mg and could feel it again within 20 minutes. I went from 40mg felt little to nothing then next day 60 mg for 3 days then felt nothing 80mg for 1 day then the 2nd day the 80 felt like nothing at all until I took another 20 an hr later.
I cut out my morning caffeine when I started clen im wondering if that's playing a role in it. The first 2 days at 40mg of clen my legs were shaky with my hands.

I had the same thing happen with a reputable brand of clen. Thought it could be bunk, reason I purchased the Test kits for clenbuterol. Never did test it, just switched brands. The Test kit just tells you if the compound in question is present or not, doesn't give you potency. That company offers test kits that will give you potency, but just for the most common anabolics in the market. I know what real clen feels like, it can be rough to deal with, I get jittery, even off 20-40mg for the day, dry mouth and super dehydrated no matter how much water or fluids I would drink. Hard to train later in the day because it can make you feel like shit from the dehydration. To be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of clen, I do better with T3, HGH and a clean caloric restricted diet.

 

[Tyler Durden]

so another conflicting thing I keep.hearing about hgh is don't use it b4 eating and then others say absolutely use it with high protein and light carbs no fats. That our insulin will reduce it effectiveness. Then so many others I respect talking about timing it out with a meal and exogenous insulin. That's the only thing that I really don't comprehend yet fully is how hgh and insulin interplay. Some of the people were explaining hgh pre high protein meal like others explain using insulin. Shit made me so fucking confused.

from all the sources I respect the common ones they all say are pre workout, fasted AM and a couple hours after food b4 bed. Then others I respect saying timing isn't that important outside fat loss just hit your daily

when I switch to a growing phase I will try pre and post workout which is a few hours b4 bed normally.

Hgh helped my sleep dramatically I went from severe sleep apnea to much less. Like I'm sleeping 2 to 4 hours b4 waking now and can fall back asleep quick then i wake up feeling human again. I have another sleep study in hospital few days from now.

We live in the information age now; we are being flooded with information on every and anything and by any and everybody whether they know what they're talking about or not. A lot of what you posted above is viewed as outdated info and/or just bunk info, it may only apply to how are endogenous endocrine system works. You must remember, exogenous compounds you put in your body, a lot of the times can give a shit about the natural process of how hormones work synergistically in an endogenous format in the body. Everyone I mentioned in post #34 you can trust the information they are currently giving out in interviews and/or their own personal podcasts. Use your common sense and experiment to see what works best for you. If HGH is dramatically helping your sleep, then hell ya, use a portion of your total daily dose, say 2-4iu's before bed. As an experiment, Chase Irons was pinning all his HGH before bed, 18iu's of Serostim, just like it was stated in the pamphlet that comes with the kit. Dr. Todd Lee says it's best to split your total daily dose up through the day. Both these guys have seen great results from their own personal research. You need to figure out what's best for you. Take the knowledge these guys have to offer as a guide, experiment for yourself, and then come to a conclusion what's best for you. Keep an open mind, because protocols are constantly changing as the research evolves as to the best way to use PEDS.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Sorry man I'm absolutely OCD about educating myself on all this stuff to an unnecessary degree according to most. I ask questions I think I know the answers to just to get others opinions sometimes so If I ask you something that seems dumb or like I should already know it I'm probably just trying to gain confidence in what I think the answer is. Sometimes tho it might just be stupid

It's all good brother, better to be inquisitive than remain ignorant by not asking questions at all. By the way, who are the people you view as authorities on the subject of PEDS, and respect the information they put out and are potentially following what they say?